The Chart That Will Help Re-Elect Obama

What the hell does racism have to do with economic numbers? This gets 19 thumbs up? I thought Newsvine was going after "Grenade Trolling."

Racism? Seriously? Wow, DesertFox... At least, thanks to people like you watering it down, racism is about as serious as a word as "sugarplum."

"One cannot and must not try to erase the past merely because it does not fit the present"

Golda Meir

Yes, but tell that to Fox "news."

THIS they can't spin, because I've seen that chart at at least three different sites, two cable channels and one newspaper, and the right side just stays green. :)

Green with envy?

We all should get a bunch of volunteers, make a huge copy of this chart and post it everywhere there people in large numbers. Cosco, Sam's Club, or anywhere there is a large flow of people.

Let the public see the truth.

#3.4:Let the public see the truth.

In addition, and more importantly, we must STATE these facts, whenever we have/get the chance. We are the ones who need to start "singing this tune."

Absolutely!

That idea of putting that chart up at Costco's, Sam's Clubs, etc. and everywhere else large volumes of people frequent is a good idea. Make sure there's a link on it, so people can go home and see it for themselves (since flyers are usually taken with a grain of salt).

frightening....

to forget things like this one here:

http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?civilliberties_patriot_act=civilliberties_signing_statements&timeline=civilliberties

put someone in charge, above the law, or skirting lawlessness,

willing to do these things, and no one is watching, or paying attention.

A bit of amnesia, everyone?

follow the money

Very good link, I would suggest people read it and take note

thanks sillyman,

here's another one,

just for you..."The Hidden Power":

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2006/07/03/060703fa_fact1

operating in the shadows. you take care,

peace to all*

@leonthecat

Interesting link. What's more interesting is that if that article would have been updated to 2012, you would've noticed the same trend in the current administration. Not only that, you would've noticed an increased role in perpetrating the abhorrent activity that has destroyed the United States.

@newsvine

And for the graph? It is a misleading representation of reality, and a sad attempt to hide all the atrocities the current administration has traitorously exacted on the people of the United States/World.

Sheep beware! You are being led to the slaughter and don't even know it.

@Smbelow

It is really sad that in the light of evidence you are still blinded by what you lord and ruler Rush Limbaugh has told you. Here's what you do, prove those numbers wrong. show everyone the hard evidence that says Forbes magizine, which is very reputable and hardly a communist rag, lied about the numbers.

@Psimon

lord and ruler Rush Limbaugh

I know of the man, but neither listen or watch what he is saying.

I get my information from all over the place and trust NO ONE'S singular view about something! I look and read about what is being peddled and then match it up with what is happening in the WORLD. And yes! I've been reading about some positive economic indicators, but nothing in the realm of what needs to occur in order to resuscitate the United States. I view these numbers as a form of...what is it called...Oh yeah! Death throes!

prove those numbers wrong

Read what I said a little closer there...I didn't say the representation of the graph is inaccurate; I am only saying that the graph is MISLEADING. Go ahead! Read my post again.

For an idea of what is really going on, you need to go back and study the number of companies that have left the country since 1991; how many jobs have been lost because of the this; the drop in wages; the number of foreclosures; the number of bankruptcies filed; etc...

So just posting some cheesy chart showing something that can not possibly measure the strength of the country is in essence MISLEADING. That is my point.

POST CORRECTION:

Post number #18.4 should have referred to follow the money's link not leonthecat.

For an idea of what is really going on, you need to go back and study the number of companies that have left the country since 1991

Remind us again what party was in office in 1991

deryl-638200:

for you...Romney and his partners....recieved $10 Million from Feds,:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kz119eIuz2U&feature=related

shipped jobs off.

possible use of offshore tax shelters?

on tax-shelters: top 10, for you:

http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/ad-lib/2011/apr/10/tax-evaders-wall-shame/

@deryl-638200

Doesn't matter. Both sides are working together; don't be fooled by their costumes or rhetoric. If you continue to base your truth off of graphs and speeches, without looking at the world for a comparison, you're not going to be prepared when the country collapses into third world status.

I like This Congresswoman,

Marcy Kaptur...Let me show you one of her videos from youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=9lCqt--3az8&NR=1

she's great.

Doesn't matter. Both sides are working together

Just like the present?

Followthemoney

She's great of course she's a dem. :)

Common Sense, amazing !

hey,

look what I found here:

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/04/12/157766/mitt-romney-tax-havens/

"Romney Founded Business That Utilized Offshore Tax Havens, Costing Taxpayers Billions In Lost Revenue"

Its No wonder he Won't Release his Tax Records?

Something to hide?

And the republicans have made denial an art-form. Can't let them get away with it!

Please tell me one Obama policy that contributed to private sector job growth

Ok Mike ...You asked for just one... I will give you just one ...but there are many;

November 17, 2011

Military.com|by Bryant Jordan

In a rare show of bipartisanship for today’s Washington, the House voted unanimously on Wednesday to grant tax credits to businesses that agree to hire veterans.

The measure already has passed the Senate 94-1, and will go next to the White House for President Barack Obama’s signature. Obama congratulated Democrats and Republicans for supporting the tax credits, which advocates say are necessary to help reduce veterans’ unemployment.

“No veteran who fought for our country should have to fight for a job when they come home,” Obama said in a statement. “That’s why I proposed these tax credits back in August, and I look forward to signing them into law.”

OK Let's hear just one fact. Please tell me one Obama policy that contributed to private sector job growth

Chrysler and GM bailout:

There is little independent data on how many jobs were saved as a result of the auto industry bailout. But a study from the Center for Automotive Research, which receives some industry funding, says the bailouts of General Motors and Chrysler saved more than 1 million jobs in the car industry, supply chain, and communities where auto workers spend their paychecks [8] [PDF], a figure Obama echoes [9] in his speeches on the bailout. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the industry added 45,000 jobs in the nine months after GM exited bankruptcy [10]. [PDF; see fourth page]

Stimulus of 2009:

Initially projected to cost $787 billion, the package has actually cost $825 billion [11] [PDF], according to the Congressional Budget Office's latest calculations. The CBO's latest report estimates that the stimulus raised the number of employed Americans by 1 million to 2.9 million over the last quarter [12]. At its peak in the second quarter of 2010, it increased employment by 1.4 million to 3.3 million [13].

http://www.propublica.org/article/what-is-obamas-actual-record-on-creating-jobs/single

There's two!

Beautiful example...if it had contributed, but that program hasn't had time to go into effect for December numbers...Please feel free to try again. BTW we should eliminate all taxes on businesses....businesses don't pay anyhow, consumers do...yet another part of economics liberals can't seem to understand.

Regards,

Mike

FL Pat,

You and the articles you posted are mistaken. If government funds were used to create the jobs, then the jobs are counted as a negative. There is no such thing as a perpetual motion machine, in physics or economics. Anyone who tells you government stimulus creates jobs is blowing smoke up your fourth point of contact.

Next.

Regards,

Mike

Anyone who tells you government stimulus creates jobs is blowing smoke up your fourth point of contact.

Tell that to someone employed today because of those programs. You asked for examples, they were given. Now you qualify what constitutes job creation? That seems right out of the conservative play book. God forbid if Obama has any sort of success, right?

The conservative's policies for the 30 years leading up to the meltdown in 2008 are directly responsible for the troubles of the last 4 years. They contributed massive debt and massive unemployment poorly run wars and the death and destruction they bring. I want no part of any more of their "exemplary leadership" (actually America cannot afford it).

Tell that to someone employed today because of those programs.

So you support forcible theft to enable those programs, those jobs? And you are wrong, there were no examples given. A government funded job, doesn't count as a job as far as the economy goes, else we could solve the problem by everyone working for the government. Again, it's just math. Remember, it takes approximately 5 private sector dollars to generate one tax dollar....5 private sector jobs to support 1 public sector job or one federally funded private sector job....like Solyndra. Actually with them...ratio was much worse. I for one, am getting tired of politicians on both sides of the aisle stealing from me to give to others. There is a very short list of thongs the Federal government is supposed to be involved in, and job creation ain't one of them.

So you support forcible theft to enable those programs, those jobs?

I do not consider it theft. It is a cost to live and thrive in this great country and the local community. To ignore the situation the country was in and the dire unemployment problem created by the Great Recession would have jeopardized our way of life. I approved of the actions taken and will not forget at the polls the greedy bastards that obstructed the efforts to help the situation.

You and I will never see eye to eye on these points - so be it, but money and the everything goes race for wealth accumulation has put the soul of America at risk. I hope there are enough American citizens that recognize this and work to instill values that actually make us a better people and a better country.

FL Pat,

Fair enough. Good evening to you.

Regards,

Mike

Good night to you as well!

Pat

There probably zillions of them. Maybe you could ask the auto industry. Bet they could tell you a thing or two.

You asked for examples, they were given.

This is a big problem I see with those advocating for the Republicans this time: Not just that they deny reality sometimes - that's been the case for a while - but that they demand proof of something, and then you give them proof, and then they refuse to accept the truth (or at least shut up in embarrassment). I think the religious reactionaries do this even more than the Teapublicans.

A government funded job, doesn't count as a job as far as the economy goes

spending money (their wages) directly contributes to the economy

The chart is not including government jobs which have decreased since President Obama has be in office, contrary to what talk radio and fox news would have you believe, but it's counting private sector jobs only, that have grown under Obama.

That seems right out of the conservative play book. God forbid if Obama has any sort of success, right?

The conservative's policies for the 30 years leading up to the meltdown in 2008 are directly responsible for the troubles of the last 4 years. They contributed massive debt massive unemployment poorly run wars and the death and destruction they bring. I want no part of any more of their "exemplary leadership" (actually America cannot afford it).

4Real. Luntz losing his touch, or are conservatives that desperate?

1. Don't say 'capitalism we're replacing it with either 'economic freedom' or 'free market,' " Luntz said. "The public . . . still prefers capitalism to socialism, but they think capitalism is immoral.. Don't say that the government 'taxes the rich.' Instead, tell them that the government 'takes from the rich.'

2."If you talk about raising taxes on the rich," the public responds favorably, Luntz cautioned. But "if you talk about government taking the money from hardworking Americans, the public says no. Taxing, the public will say yes

3. Republicans should forget about winning the battle over the 'middle class.' Call them 'hardworking taxpayers.'"They cannot win if the fight is on hardworking taxpayers. We can say we defend the 'middle class' and the public will say, I'm not sure about that. But defending 'hardworking taxpayers' and Republicans have the advantage."

4. Don't talk about 'jobs.' Talk about 'careers.'

"Everyone in this room talks about 'jobs,'" Luntz said. "Watch this."

He then asked everyone to raise their hand if they want a "job." Few hands went up. Then he asked who wants a "career." Almost every hand was raised.

"So why are we talking about jobs?"

5. Don't ever say you're willing to 'compromise.'

"If you talk about 'compromise,' they'll say you're selling out. Your side doesn't want you to 'compromise.' What you use in that to replace it with is 'cooperation.' It means the same thing. But cooperation means you stick to your principles but still get the job done. Compromise says that you're selling out those principle

6. Always blame Washington.

Tell them, "You shouldn't be occupying Wall Street, you should be occupying Washington. You should occupy the White House because it's the policies over the past few years that have created this problem."

Straight from the conservative playbook.

The chart is not including government jobs

Indeed. Y'gotta love how many Republican supporters keep missing the very first words at the top of the graphic: "Private Sector"

The chart is inaccurate. Government jobs are always counted as a negative. In other words, when the government sheds jobs, effective employment goes up. It takes on the average 5 taxpaying private sector jobs to support one government job, which is whynthey are considered a drain on the economy. It's just math.

Government jobs are always counted as a negative. This will be news to the BLS.

when the government sheds jobs, effective employment goes up. This will ALSO be news to the BLS.

It takes on the average 5 taxpaying private sector jobs to support one government job, which is whynthey are considered a drain on the economy. It's just math. Not particularly good math, but sure-- math.

Job growth in the private sector looks much better than this chart, with 22 consecutive months of private sector job growth.

Funny, the rethuglicons are trying to claim private sector job growth is due to the election of 2010 and their policies (they have some?).

Not sure how they can claim a trend that started a year before they took office....

That doesn't make any sense. Try a rational statement.

Happily,

Of course it makes sense....it's rudimentary math. You can't borrow to get out of debt and you can't redistribute income to create jobs. Again, there is no such thing as a perpetual motion machine.

Mike,

You can't borrow to get out of debt

1) Farmer has a mortgage. He borrows money to buy seeds. Next season he harvests crops at a profit and pays off his mortgage. He has borrowed to get out of debt. (this--or things like it-- happen every day in business, whether it's a farmer and his seeds, or a company borrowing to build a new factory)

you can't redistribute income to create jobs

2) Government taxes its productive citizens to create and maintain infrastructure--take inventing the Internet for example. (Government has "redistributed income" from those who earned it to those who created the infrastructure-- not to mention built roads, etc.). Untold hundreds of thousands (more likely millions) of new jobs are created because of that redistribution/spending.

Next.

Regards

p.s. Saying anyone who supports Obama is a thief is, frankly, insulting.

It's perfect math...again, something liberals can't understand. Well, no, it's NOT "perfect math". And, frankly, if I can't understand it, it isn't because I'm liberal, but because you've done a @!$%# job of explaining it. Further, it's an assertion based on a raft of unspoken assumptions which a) you haven't revealed, and b) you haven't connected. For instance, there's an unspoken assertion that the "government" job does not need to be done. But is this assertion true or untrue? There are plenty of government jobs which society requires (as examples, consider firefighters and policemen). Are they "drains" on the economy, simply because their paycheck is derived from tax dollars? Suppose we privatize these positions, where would their pay come from? Assuming we do not reduce the populace whom they serve, arguably it comes from exactly the same people, in exactly the same amount (let's assume, for a moment, that these privatized forces are non-profit-- we know they wouldn't be, but let's assume it anyway). Does the money spent on them suddenly magically become different in some way that ceases to be a "drain" and switches to being a "benefit"? Not in any way that I can see, and I'd be willing to bet that you are unable to present a rational argument that it does without changing some parameter of the equation.

Likewise, your statements that "Government jobs are always counted as a negative" and "when the government sheds jobs, effective employment goes up" have the same unmistakeable odor of bull@!$%# to them. First, obviously, government jobs are not always counted as a negative (except perhaps in some libertarian fantasy). They certainly aren't counted as a negative by the BLS, which looks at what percentage of the population currently wants to work, is looking for work, and is capable of working, and counts the number of people who are holding jobs. Folks holding government jobs are holding jobs, and thus not collecting unemployment or welfare. Of course, for some folks, the argument that there's no difference to the taxpayer between spending the money on welfare and spending the money on government salaries might seem enticing (you seem to be that sort of person, by the way), but that is suggesting that there is no difference between a government job and doing nothing. But this is an instance where it IS self-evident that the two are not synonymous.

That you pay for the labor of a government job with dollars sent to the government in the form of taxes isn't really any different than you paying for the labor of the Seven Eleven clerk with dollars sent to Seven Eleven in the form of payments. The clerk-- both government and private-- gets his paycheck, which he then spends, transferring some portion of it to other clerks, and so on and so forth. In other words, the money goes into the economy. It doesn't suddenly magically disappear into some government lockbox, never to be seen again.

And when the government sheds jobs, does effective employment go up? Again, it isn't self-evident that the answer is yes. If I have one hundred people who are employed, 83 of them privately and 17 "supported" by those 83 in "government" jobs, what happens when those 17 lose their jobs? I still have 100 people. But out of 100, only 83 are employed.

I'm sure the answer you're thinking of giving to this question is "but with the money the 83 save in taxes, they can spend more on other stuff, and that increased demand will employ the other 17!" Sure. I agree that it could happen. Does the work that those 17 people were doing before we suddenly cut their "government" jobs still need to be done? At least some of it. So is it a net gain or net loss? Again, the answer isn't self evident. It depends on what is being done, whether or not it needs to be done, whether or not there is a sound cost/benefit ratio, et cetera, et cetera.

You can't borrow to get out of debt Obviously untrue. It depends on what you do with the money you borrow. My brother-in-law and his wife were seriously in debt. He borrowed money, went to school, got a degree in computer engineering, and got a job making four times as much money as he had been making earlier, which allowed him to pay off his debts. This happens with regularity, every single day, across the country.

Again, there is no such thing as a perpetual motion machine. The country's economy is neither a zero-sum game nor a closed system.

Or in other words, this has been a long way to go in order to say, essentially, "thank you for your bumper sticker post, but you can cut the @!$%#, now."

You can't borrow to get out of debt

Bull@!$%#. That kind of crap may sound good on a Tea Party rally sign but has no basis in reality.

Businesses go into debt in order to expand every day, betting that an investment in equipment, property or personnel will increase their future revenue. In the same way, deficit spending can be seen as an investment to increase future tax revenues.

China's investment in infrastructure spending is much higher that the U.S. If you think that cutting back while your main competitor is investing is a winning strategy, you obviously have no business experience.

You can't borrow to get out of debt

Mike doesn't understand that there are legitimate times TO incur debt to HELP increase demand in the economy after a gut busting 9% drop of GDP, whats stupid is borrowing to subsidize tax cuts, which is itself a stimulus on top of an already growing economy, which typifies the last 3 republican administrations. Conservatives are shocked shocked that the debt is so high when the are responsible for the majority of it, from the ten 10 Trillion they have accrued through over 20 years, plus the interest, plus the remedies for their failed boom bust policies.

Every reputable economist has made the same case for spending, to get the economy going again, then when the economy can bear the reductions, then and only then should we reduce.

There sure are a lot of amateur economists out there who think, because they read it in some hack journal, or heard it from some blowhard (Limbaugh, for instance), that hobbling an economy already on the ropes is the only way to prosperity.

Personally, I'll take what Robert Reich says about it, before any GOP/tea wanna-be.

I love this!

You can't borrow to get out of debt

Some are trying to rationalize the idea that you CAN borrow to get out of debt. Yet...there is a big old fat debt clock in New York showing in real time that you CAN'T borrow to get out of debt. Here's a neat website to go and watch how the past administrations (INCLUDING THIS ONE) has been borrowing to get the country out of debt If I'm not mistaken, those numbers are counting up - not down.

There is no senate! There is no house of REPRESENTATIVES! There is no EXECUTIVE branch! The so called government is not being run by the people but by a globalist agenda. When are you sheep going to wakeup? The principles you think you are supporting is only an illusion.

Readup on: Oligarchy/Plutocracy - That's the type of government you have, which is leading to totalitarianism.

Mike-1499840

Chapter 13 offers individuals a number of advantages over liquidation under chapter 7. Perhaps most significantly, chapter 13 offers individuals an opportunity to save their homes from foreclosure. By filing under this chapter, individuals can stop foreclosure proceedings and may cure delinquent mortgage payments over time. Nevertheless, they must still make all mortgage payments that come due during the chapter 13 plan on time. Another advantage of chapter 13 is that it allows individuals to reschedule secured debts (other than a mortgage for their primary residence) and extend them over the life of the chapter 13 plan. Doing this may lower the payments. Chapter 13 also has a special provision that protects third parties who are liable with the debtor on "consumer debts." This provision may protect co-signers. Finally, chapter 13 acts like a consolidation loan under which the individual makes the plan payments to a chapter 13 trustee who then distributes payments to creditors. Individuals will have no direct contact with creditors while under chapter 13 protection.

Mike seems to forget that EVERY business borrows money to start up, so yes, EVERY business borrows money to get out of debt.

Mike if you believe you don't have to spend money to make money, go to your next job interview in your pajamas, and see how well it works out.

Actually, YES! It is the truth that President Obama is good for the Country............Really! :-)

Its amazing, the cognitive dissonance that prevents people from seeing that. In spite of the supporting evidence, people refuse to believe that any Obama can do could possibly be good for the country.

yatahey-4900959

Obama is one hell of a lot better than the folks who destroyed it.

I suppose you give Reagan credit for fixing this economy. He gets credit for everything else.

yatahey,

C'mon, man.....you don't have enough fingers to plug all the holes in that sinking ship you're on.

#11.1:so the truth is that obama and his administration are great and good for the country???? really?

Yes, don't you know that by now! If not, where have you been?

Obama believes the government should think and do everything for you - and rule over you. If you gave a damn about preserving your liberty, you'd vote him out.

Obama believes the government should think and do everything for you - and rule over you.

Absolutely backwards. That's the Republican's platform, seeking to force their religious mythology about creation on school children, to force their oppressive patriarchal suppression of reproductive rights on women, etc.

Brought to you by the "Brainwashed by Maddow Committee".

Last I looked, Obama wasn't issuing executive orders to investigate women's vaginas. The GOP, on the other hand, has attempted to pass several hundred bills on reproductive choice-- sort of a conservative Occupy Women's Sex-lives. And that's irrespective of legislation intended to insert religion into science classes, revise America's history to more closely align with religious conservative fantasy, repeal the 14th Amendment, return us to the year 1850, et cetera, ad nauseam.

Conservatives believe in serfdom. Thanks, but no.

Obama believes the government should think and do everything for you - and rule over you. If you gave a damn about preserving your liberty, you'd vote him out.

I'm sorry, but I missed the campaign speech in which Obama said that. Please cite.

I don't remember President Obama saying the poor are losers, that we need to put poor black kids to work or they'll become criminals like their parents, that women aren't smart enough to make their own decisions, that the GLBT community should stay hidden in the closet and STFU or that we need to reduce social services as they aren't in the best interest of the growth and health of the country like some we know.

But they certainly put a lot of stock in crowing about how they know what "libs" think, and how "bad" this president and his policies are, without a lick of proof.

No, it's using terms they haven't a clue what the definitions are, casting a pall over improvements in the economy, meager as they are, because despite GOP/tea obstruction and malingering, the economy IS improving, no thanks to the worthless congress.

Like all this blather about "liberty." They constantly demean the very people who stand for it, while "defending" the word, oblivious to the fact they are actually defending those who would take it away from them, and haven't a clue when it's pointed out to them, time after time, after time.

They just confirm those they support aren't fit to lead, or run this country. I wouldn't trust any of them as bug exterminators. It's obvious now, that they would spend much of their time inhaling their own product, and trying to convince the rest of us how good it is.

yatahey-4900959

when 350,000 to 400,000 new unemployment claims are still coming in every month.

Can you provide a link?

Where are the Jobs the GOP said they would focus on in 2010?

What have the GOP done for the middle class?

Here is what your GOP is about

. So if you need a reason why we should end the
Republican/Tea Party, here are 80 of them.

1. They want to take away your Social Security.
2. They want to end Medicare.
3. They want to wipe out labor unions.
4. They want to send every last American job overseas.
5. They want to pollute the air we breathe.
6. They want pollute the water we drink.
7. They want to persecute non-Christians.
8. They want declare a state religion.
9. They took America hostage during the debt ceiling debate.
10. They want to take America hostage in every debate from now on.
11. The want to make it legal for businesses to discriminate.
12. They want to segregate our schools.
13. They want to allow oil companies to rape America’s environmental treasures for any trace amount of oil.
14. They refuse to give aid to the American people who go through natural disasters.
15. They want to end funding for natural disaster warning systems.
16. They want to take away the right to vote.
17. They want to make abortion illegal, even in cases of rape.
18. They want to abolish the corporate income tax.
19. They want to raise YOUR taxes but not taxes on the wealthy.
20. They want to end workplace safety regulations.
21. They ARE racists.
22. They disrespect the President at every opportunity.
23. They don’t support health care for every American citizen.
24. They want to allow health insurance companies to drop people.
25. They want to abolish the Environmental Protection Agency.
26. They want to illegally spy on American citizens.
27. They want more wars.
28. They want to indoctrinate our kids.
29. They want to make laws requiring every person to own a gun whether you like guns or not.
30. They want kill Planned Parenthood and end critical health care services for women.
31. They want to ban contraceptives and condoms.
32. They want to kill homosexuals.
33. They want to end unemployment benefits.
34. They want our infrastructure to crumble.
35. They want to end the independent judiciary branch, and turn it into a strictly conservative branch.
36. They want to keep women from earning equal pay for equal work.
37. They want President Obama to fail at all costs.
38. They want to continue the same failed economic policies that put us into a recession.
39. They rewrite and distort history.
40. They want to end public education for all.

41. They want to repeal the Voting Rights Act.
42. They care more about Wall Street than they do about Main Street.
43. They have voted to end 1.9 million jobs and have created zero.
44. They want to make it legal to kill doctors who provide abortions.
45. They want to reinstate ‘Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell.
46. They encourage gun violence.
47. They refuse to vote for cleaner, more efficient energy sources.
48. They want to deport hispanics, whether they were born here or not.
49. They support Israel’s President over our own.
50. They want to abolish minimum wage laws.
51. They think corporations are people.
52. They want to repeal portions of the Constitution.
53. They want to pull America out of the United Nations.
54. They support torture.
55. They want to teach creationism in schools.
56. They reject science.
57. They want to make cohabitation before marriage a crime.
58. They want to allow health insurance companies to not cover sick children.
59. They want to end food stamps.
60. They make government ineffective.
61. They want to take away your pensions.
62. They want to privatize prisons to put more people in jail.
63. They want to end your right to collectively bargain with your employer.
64. They want to ban the unemployed from being considered for employment.
65. They want end funding for legal services for the poor.
66. They want to end Miranda Rights.
67. They think all liberals are un-American.
68. They refuse to give any credit to President Obama for ordering the killing of Osama Bin Laden.
69. They refuse to acknowledge that 9/11 occurred during the Bush Administration.
70. They declared fiscal martial law in a Michigan town and fired the legally elected local government.
71. They called President Obama a liar during his State Of The Union Address.
72. They refuse to cut the Defense budget, which if cut in half would still be the largest defense budget in the world.
73. They apologize to foreign oil companies when they take heat for oil spills.
74. They take orders from the Koch brothers.
75. They sign pledges drawn up by conservative activists, and ignore their pledge to serve the constituents who voted for them.
76. They use conservative media to push the right wing agenda even if it means distorting the news or flat out lying.
77. They want to cut nutrition programs for children.
78. They want to cut housing and energy assistance programs that help poor people.
79. They want to slash job training programs that help the unemployed.
80. They think teachers are thugs.

http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/80-reasons-why-its-time-to-take-these-republicantea-party-sons-of-bitches-down/question-2141781/

MJL-3

Here is what your GOP is about

75. They sign pledges drawn up by conservative activists, and ignore their pledge to serve the constituents who voted for them.

Yep! One word: A.L.E.C.

YEP

Norquist and ALEC

What a pair.

Here is one reason why liberals are destroying America.

1. They don't understand how America works.

Yes we do.

Conservatives just don't want it to so they can lay blame at everyone else's doorstep except their own.

Classic narcissistic personality disorder.

Karl Rove syndrom, no cure :)

MJL-3,

Nope. You are right, there.

Yatahey,

KEEP BAILING, DUDE!! KEEP BAILING!!

Maybe you can get VR to help you......Oh, he's doing his own! KEEP BAILING!!

!!LOL!!!

MJL3 - WOW, that's the biggest "The sky is falling, the sky is falling!" list I've seen in a long time. You get a gold star! Too bad it doesn't hold a shred of truth.

Matt

OK, I provided the link

come on prove me wrong, I triple dog dare ya

Oh and Matt, welcome to the vine :)

The "yes we do " part, really scares me.

Because if you knew how America is SUPPOSED to work, you would not be a liberal.

you guys still gotta explain to me how you gain jobs when 350,000 to 400,000 new unemployment claims are still coming in every month. Here's how I explain it: you make up numbers as you go along.

Here's 'initial unemployment claims' by month, since 2008. These would be the "new unemployment claims" that you're lying about. You'll notice-- even at the height of the unemployment disaster, initial claims only once, barely, topped 300,000 in a month (February 2009). Since then, initial claims have steadily dropped off each month, to the current rate of about 120,000 per month.

Make up some more @!$%# for me to debunk. I enjoy making you look ignorant.

MJL-3 - The link you provided is what we in the real world call OPINION. There is not one shred of fact provided.

Oh, and MJL-3 - When you get there I'll be the first to welcome you to reality.

It's more real than FOx

Oh, and MJL-3 - When you get there I'll be the first to welcome you to reality.

That was NOT called for

MJL-3 - I took your "welcome to the vine" as sarcasm. If it wasn't, then sorry for my come-back and thanks.

Matt

No problem , wasn't sarcasm.

Seems to work in Rick Perry's eyes.

The recent Republican record, and the fact that they're pushing for power so that they can return to some of those proven-failed policies, make the contrast clear. The American people aren't given a choice between Good and Great. They're being given a choice between Good (the Democrats) and Bad (the Republicans), with regard to employment and other economic issues affecting the middle class and the poor.

#13.2:The American people aren't given a choice between Good and Great. They're being given a choice between Good (the Democrats) and Bad (the Republicans), with regard to employment and other economic issues affecting the middle class and the poor

And I am going to call the republicans, "the Bad and the Ugly"; might as well make the slogan complete- plus it fits!

#13:The creation of jobs alone, is not a good reason to celebrate if they are part-time, seasonal, service oriented with low pay and little or no benefits.

IT IS if you compare it to what the repugs have accomplished: No jobs AT ALL, not even part-time, seasonal nor service oriented with NO Pay and NO benefits!

Seems to be a clear winner to me, and I don't mean the repugs by any stretch of the imagination.

Remember, we are not comparing anything to the almighty, but to the alternative!

That's got to be the basis of the Republican campaign this fall, to try to make this an election about comparing the last four years to nirvanna, instead of comparing it to what would have been if they had the White House, or what would actually result if they regained the White House. The Republicans' only chance for victory this fall rests in tricking America into overlooking how bad things would get if they regained control.

The creation of jobs alone, is not a good reason to celebrate if they are part-time, seasonal, service oriented with low pay and little or no benefits.

Exactly! So you need to speak with Bachmann who advocates removal of the minimum wage, Gingrich who want to eliminate child labor laws, and all the GOP Presidential hopefuls that are anti-union and think public sector workers (teachers, police, firefighters, etc.) are the bain of America.

Wow, everyone skirted the question...let me repeat it: What kind of jobs? I don't want to hear party rhetoric or excuses, I asked a simple, not complex, question. No one has any answer?

I think what you'd be interested in looking at is the BLS U6 un employment rate, which includes workers "marginally attached" to the workforce and individuals force to accept part-time employment rather than their desired full-time employment. Like the more traditional U3 measure, U6 unemployment is also down 2% from its peak in 2009.

Looks like the answer is "full-time jobs".

As far as how well they pay, and whether or not they include health benefits, I'd have to say neither potential answer is "simple" (in contradiction to your claim), but it's highly likely that they include health benefits, given that the number of people who are insured has gone UP since the passage of health care reform. (Just as an example, see here)

Disposable personal income has gone up since January of 2009.

iarnuocon;

You gave an honest answer. Thank you.

#16:The reason people cling to their beliefs is called confirmation bias. It's a tough one to break through.

Another reason (excuse!) that people cling to their beliefs is called DENIAL! This is mostly of the facts. According to this phenomena, staying in denial will alleviate the need to change your assessment, and admit that you are incorrect!

This is bad for their ego but to me, it is the epitome of selfishness.

Party loyalty is tough to break whether right or wrong. We're looking at people that are staunchly religious that have been hammered with dogma, indoctrination and propaganda. This is a hard habit to break so when faced with a dilemma such as this breaking away from their devotions is painful. They have not been trained to open their consciousness, use critical thinking reason and logic, they've only a blind need to follow and keep going no matter if it is leading them to hell.

If that was true, then nobody will be working. US population is about 375 million people.

And a bunch of them need to be at school each day or the truant officer will be coming by.

When the debates begin Obama is going to be back peddling like crazy. He will spend the campaign trying to take his foot out of his mouth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nmn4xrXVY8

So by his own words Obama is irresponsible an unpatriotic

Ya know Wild, I watched that clip, as repulsive as the hate-mongering graphics that some Teapublican sleazebag added were.

I don't know what you hear, but it is very, very clear that he is talking about what Bush and the Republicans did to the economy. Seriously, do you really have that much trouble with comprehension?

He even mentions Bush by name, or maybe you missed that part?

Obama is nothing more than a statist bent on increasing this huge, bloated, and bankrupt government to rule over the populace. Sounds very unpatriotic to me.

So by Obamas own words he is irresponsible and unpatriotic , how can he deny that ?

Obama is nothing more than a statist bent on increasing this huge, bloated, and bankrupt government

Can you prove that? Because I can prove that your comment is BS.

http://thinkprogress.org/yglesias/2011/07/08/263588/the-conservative-recovery-continues-2/?mobile=nc

In total, we have about 500,000 fewer people working for the government since Obama’s inauguration even though the national population is larger than it used to be.

BTW, now that you should know better because you've been shown the facts, I don't want to see you repeat your claim again.

So by Obamas own words he is irresponsible and unpatriotic , how can he deny that ?

Well Wild, a better question is "How can you keep spouting that LIE?"

Take a look at the very link that YOU YOURSELF provided. Obama says quite clearly that BUSH and the REPUBLICANS are irresponsible and unpatriotic.

I repeat, do you really have that much trouble with comprehension?

Are we not borrowing at record levels Yes or No

Let's set aside the anti-Obama rhetoric for just a second. I mean, two astute and perspicacious folks such as yourselves obviously have your fingers on the pulse of American economic health. Don't tell me what Obama "wants" or "will do" or "is". Tell me what you see as the solution. What's going to jump start our economy (above the improvements that have already been made since January of 2009)? How is the best way to pay off the debt, reduce the size of government, and put everyone who wants a job (including those holding the government jobs you advocate eliminating) into decent paying, respectable positions?

C'mon, patriots! You have the answers! Failing to share them would be un-American!

I await your cogent economic dissertations with bated breath.

iarnuocon

Getting our country back on its feet is one tough assignment. I have posted this many times and will again. Our countries biggest issues are ....

The breakdown of the family

Too much debt individual and government

Obesity

The dumbing down of our kids

Our countries biggest issues are ....

The breakdown of the family

Too much debt individual and government

Obesity

The dumbing down of our kids

1. You cannot legislate morality. A loving family is a loving family even if you don't agree with their love.

2. And you blame Obama why? http://money.cnn.com/2011/09/16/news/economy/obama_debt/index.htm

3. And while the Teapublicans classify pizza as a vegatable, you complain about Michelle Obama's efforts.

4. They don't get any smarter when you spread lies like your link.

In the end, the old saying is true. If you are not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

When 6 wal mart family members have more wealth than 93,000,000 human beings something is wrong (TAX The RICH) I sure they won't miss a meal if they have to settle four having more wealth than 25,000,000 Humans

Well, WILD, I see in your post the identification of four things you think are hurdles (only one of which could even marginally be an 'Obama' issue, coincidentally), but absolutely nothing in terms of what you'd do differently to fix the economy. It seems you're long on criticism and short on ideas.

I'll reiterate-- what would you do differently? How would you fix these problems facing America? What's your plan? What's going to jump start our economy (above the improvements that have already been made since January of 2009)? How is the best way to pay off the debt, reduce the size of government, and put everyone who wants a job (including those holding the government jobs you advocate eliminating) into decent paying, respectable positions?

And I think we can all see that, faced with those questions, smokedbrisket has simply fled.

The two of you want me (and everyone else) to believe that Obama is the problem. OK, I'm willing, for the sake of argument, to posit that Obama has done nothing to help the economy (which has mysteriously begun righting itself "in spite of" anything the administration has done). You say we're getting worse. You obviously have something in mind for what needs to change (or else you would have no yardstick by which to make claims about the administration).

What's your plan?

He's a marxist who is destroying our country.

That's such a convenient statement-- no need for any analysis. No need for any research or facts. No need to look at specific policies or laws. No need to engage in a debate. Just "He's a Marxist-- that's my argument."

It's rather sad, actually...

"We don't like him, period" would suffice, name-calling seems a bit immature. "I have no facts but this is the way it is" is a great play for those that know very little about our country or government. lol

Our countries biggest issues are ....

The breakdown of the family - the lack of jobs and a working living wage and the downward spiraling of the American dream, the lowest upward mobility in the worlds democratic countries, the increasing burden of healthcare, the scourging of any social or real family values by the Republicans/Teaparty have a lot to do with this.

Too much debt individual and government- caused by two unpaid for wars and the gross buildup of the industrial military complex during 8 years of the Bush administration. The refusal to let the government deal with financial regulations, and the buildup of the free for all economy heavily overwhelmingly tilted in the favor of the rich and the banks, wall street and corporate rulers who answer to no one.

Obesity- the destruction of preventative health care, of children's and prenatal programs, of the social safety net, the destruction of regulations on our food, the unfettered free market being the only safeguard to healthy living.

The dumbing down of our kids- the constant Republican/teaparty War on Education has to be the clear winner here.The war on science and research is a strong contender also. The destruction of unions, the war on public employees which include teachers and school nurses, librarians, music and art teachers are cheating our kids.

that's what the right-wing extremist fringe doesn't get:

He's a marxist who is destroying our country.

doesn't cut the mustard for the 50% in the middle that actually determine the outcome of the general election.

25% of the people believe that statement already and will repeat it ad nauseum (conveniently the same 25% that still insist GWB was a good president, and the same have no idea what a Marxist actually is). They just erroneously use the word Marxist to define any progressive

25% actually wouldn't care if Obama is a Marxist they will support him no matter what.

50% in the middle isn't not going to believe that statement just because you say so, unless you can prove it with facts, figures, statements, etc. Which is impossible because anyone with a modicum of political science comprehension knows that Obama is no more a Marxist then any other president before him.

Oh, look-- WILD and brisket both had all day long to voice their solutions, and what did they come up with? Nothing.

As expected.

They don't get paid enough to respond I guess.

"Democrats are socialists

You entire comment begins with a flawed and incorrect statement, making the rest of your post flawed and incorrect.

I am a Democrat. In fact, I am a Liberal Democrat. If you knew what "socialism" is, you would know that the TARP (proposed by the Republicans, BTW) is much closer to Socialism than the Stimulus was.

I disproved your "statist" comment in #18.5. Is rhetoric your best response? PROVE how Obama has "grown the government!"

You can't, because you're wrong.

It's clear that you are only interested in your rhetoric and facts have no place in your thinking.

How sad it must be to be you.

One more thing.

LIBERTY LOST IS LIBERTY THAT CANNOT BR REGAINED

By your "logic" the Revolutionary War would never have been won. Pfffft.

Democrats are socialists. Hey, buttercup? Instead of flapping you gums, blowing froth all over everyone, I've given you an opportunity to put forward your positive plan for fixing America, up there in thread #18. I could give a @!$%# about what you think a "statist" is, or who you think might be a "socialist". I have no confidence that you even understand the terms.

But I'm willing to meet you halfway, and posit that this administration has done nothing to improve our lot, just for the sake of argument. So, wow me. Let your utter brilliance shine forth, dazzling us all--

What would you do differently? How would you fix these problems facing America? What's your plan? What's going to jump start our economy (above the improvements that have already been made since January of 2009)? How is the best way to pay off the debt, reduce the size of government, and put everyone who wants a job (including those holding the government jobs you advocate eliminating) into decent paying, respectable positions?

Don't give me labels (which I couldn't care less about), give me your solutions. In the absence of any effort to answer these questions, I'll be forced to conclude that you're simply masturbating.

Forget any cogent logic from the GOP/teabags.

It's been three years of bileous nonsense, Don't expect that to change anytime soon.

Your mean the Republican with everything they have done to are country and your blame the Lib. Everything your lost go back the GOP. I feel sorry for people that hate so much that the mind go bunker.

Color me shocked that, when called on to present a rational positive argument for the direction the country should take, smokedbrisket responds with total silence. Apparently, it turns out that thinking is hard. And rational discourse? Forget about it.

Gee, the chart does hold water (and no small amount of truth) because it uses numbers going back to Dec. '07 up to and including Dec. '11. Maybe you didn't know this, but that includes Obama's "numbers."

Silly regressives, never looking at what's right in front of them.

Gee, Bush is back up for election? Otherwise, the chart is irrelevant. It wouldn't matter if Obama looked good if somebody else looks better, who cares? We chose the lesser of the two evils normally. Millions suffer right now. If somebody else can break that down to a lot less people suffering, Obama will be toast.

Silly libs, ROFL, even when it's pointed right out to them they still need stuff explained.

How do you utterly fail to understand that in order to fix a problem, you must understand the cause?

The Teapublicans want to go back to the failed economic policies of Bush and Reagan. This is what makes them relevant to the conversation.

Silly regressives, even when they know what caused the disaster, they want to do it again!

It's like watching Homer Simpson whacking himself in the head with a hammer over and over and over and over.

BTW, under Obama, over 500,000 govt. jobs have been cut. Care to explain how he's "growing" the govt.?

Matt--

What do those charts say?

They say that the stimulus bill, contrary to what the Republicans say, did have a very positive effect on the economy and private sector jobs. Did it make things great? No. But it looks like it stopped the hemorrhaging. How can anyone look at the data (which is directly from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, btw) and say the stimulus package of 2009 had no effect with a straight face?

It also says that that the policies of low taxes and light regulation, which were in full swing during the Bush years didn't keep us out of the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression.

No, Bush isn't running. But the republicans continue to say this election is about which policies are better for the economy. And the data (as shown in the chart) doesn't look too favorably on the favorite Republican talking points.

redsfan -

so it does matter to see which policies are working now and which policies put us into recession in 2008.

OHHH, now I get it. Yeah, what put us here, according to CLINTON were the lack of policies that the Republicans wanted but the Democrats whined like girly-boys against.

Bottom line: the chart means squat. It isn't impressive in any way. People are still suffering, growth is still crappy, who cares if it's less crappy. That's like saying "Here, eat this turd, it has corn where the previous turd only had peanuts."

No, Matt.. It's more like "we need to amputate your leg--it's bleeding too bad. And then a tourniquet is applied and the bleeding stops. Don't need to amputate the leg anymore.

It isn't easy or fast to recover from the worst economic downturn in 3 generations. I do fault Obama for not realizing the magnitude of the problem at the time and doing more for some of the root causes (housing in particular) . But the data (chart) clearly shows the talking point of "Obama's failed stimulus" to be BS.

SeattleBrian - Glad to see you figured out Obama didn't understand what he was dealing with. Had he been a good president, we'd not have had half the mess.

The chart, my friend, is irrelevant because it only shows Obama as compared to a person who is not up for election.

We can scream and cry about Bush till the cows come home but it won't change the fact that Obama for the most part was ineffective, very inefficient, and frankly showed no class during his presidency.

Like I said above, Obama will probably win but the chart won't be the reason.

redsfan - When I refer to no class what I'm talking about specifically is the way he blatently makes fun of his opposition. As a president, he should be above that.

I do believe Obama is a great husband and daddy based on what we've been able to see, no doubt about that. I just think it shows little to no class to make fun of opposition.

President Obama will take those not living up to their responsibilities to task but he does not trash others randomly the way the GOP/TP love to do. He can't hold a candle to their name calling and accusations. Yep, Matt, head on over to a right wing site and take a look.

redsfan - There are some of GOP candidates that show little to no class. We were talking about Obama, though, in this seed. I have a problem with a lot of them too.

js - I don't doubt it at all that there is a lot of trash talking and lack of class on the right, too. I just know for sure Obama has shown a lack of class which should not be in the white house regardless of political party.

Matt,

what lack of class are talking about?

I just think it shows little to no class to make fun of opposition.

specifically, give us a quote. Keeping in mind you are the one who brought us:

Silly libs, ROFL, even when it's pointed right out to them they still need stuff explained.

And I bow to ol doc gold. Good catch.

"Glad to see you figured out Obama didn't understand what he was dealing with. "

Not *quite* what I said, but I wont' argue that point..

Yes, I don't blindly think/say "My guy is always perfect and the opposition is evil and hates America"

Try it sometime. It's refreshing.

Obama has done plenty of things I like, and there are things I don't think he's done so well at.

What *does* irk me is opinions based on nonsense. One recent example: Romney is fond of saying "Obama wants equal outcomes for everybody." Obama has never said anything remotely like that, nor do his policies reflect that. If that were true, I'd be against Obama, too.

WILDWONDERFUL______If our government doesn't create jobs. Then how come we have gazillion State/Federal/Local/andCongressional government employees? Just a thought/friends Maria-Lyn

"Where does Congress get the money to create the jobs?" They won't get it from the Tooth Fairy or Santa Claus; they must get the money from taxpayers. That means if Congress collects $100 from a taxpayer for highway construction, he cannot use that $100 for some other expenditure that would have created a job. If Congress borrows the money for highway construction, it causes interest rates to be higher and therefore less job-creating investment. The bottom line is that Congress can only shift employment or unemployment but cannot create net new jobs.

WILDWONDERFUL______You answered my question with the only answer there is for creating jobs /they want to use Our money for creating jobs. Sounds simple enough doesn't it. So what is the problem with the GOP House & Senate saying no to the American People that we cannot use our Tax paying dollars to create tons of construction jobs/teachers/police/fire depts:/and the list goes on. Who's I say again darn money is it? Not the governments !!

Many federal departments need to be eliminated or combined Awesome. So, by your plan, we've now dumped tens or perhaps even hundreds of thousands of government employees into the unemployed categories.

I think Medicare needs to be reviewed and there are billions of dollars waste which could be eliminated. Probably true (and something that's mandated by the health care reform which you seem to hate) but ultimately irrelevant to the employment situation, so that's a non-starter in this discussion.

Social Insecurity is the biggest rip off ever forced on the American people. Which is a statement, not a plan of action.

Healthscare needs to repealed. Which puts us back on the path of having tens of millions of uninsured people driving up the cost of health care. Great. That's not creating jobs, at all, although it does make people measurably worse off.

Four statements. Two actions. Zero solutions. On idea that actually increases unemployment.

I would suggest laws that say if you commit crimes you will not he eligible for any federal programs. Thus ensuring that the crime rate will go up as an unintended consequence. I guess this might create a few law enforcement and corrections jobs, but probably won't employ as many people as you laid off with your first idea, and since these would be government jobs, utterly undercutting your first idea.

I would suggest we bid our prisoners out to third world countries where they would keep them for $3 a day. Oh, well, there you go-- half the jobs you just created by ensuring a heightened crime rate, you intend to outsource to other countries-- that's a great conservative idea, and stays true to your "smaller government" plan, but still doesn't employ Americans. So we're back to you not having presented a plan to create jobs in America.

I would place a bounty on all illegals. Hmmm... ok. There's a start. Displace the illegal population, and you've created several million lower-than-minimum-wage jobs to under-employ folks with. I guess that's a half-step in the right direction.

I would hold a series of summits with the 1000 largest employers and ask them how can we encourage job growth Or, to put it bluntly, you've just admitted you have no clue how to create jobs.

I would make the depreciation schedules shorter for companies who are investing in facilities and equipment in our country. Which might be great, if this were the problem, but it doesn't do anything to stimulate demand so that companies would need to invest in facilities and equipment in our country.

Nope, so far I'm not seeing much in your "plan" that actually addresses jobs.

Try again.